|
Post by hdgoddess on Jun 7, 2009 7:29:25 GMT -6
Tricia, I commend you & everyone in HELP for supporting business inside the city & the employees. Will anyone from HELP be at the Abate meeting,13th at Heads Up/Tails Down,12pm?
|
|
|
Post by howardstern on Jun 7, 2009 7:46:32 GMT -6
Welcome to iBiker Tricia. I can't (and won't) speak for all here but I commend your efforts and look forward to seeing your organizations push forward on the many issues that are on the table. As mentioned in previous posts by Geezer and Pat, I too am still a bit hesitant to fully give up on the Not a Dime in '09 campaign. As I see progress, perhaps my outlook will change. I want nothing more than to see the business' within city limits vibrant once again. You have many hurdles to face. The business owners are the masters of their own destiny at this point. Last July they were hauntingly thin from the ranks of the leather-clad soldiers that tirelessly did battle with the city and county in an attempt to save the rallies and their livelyhood. Sadly, some (myself included) still have a bad taste in their mouths and need to be assured that support is worthy. So, as the story unfolds, we'll see..... I'm happy to say that I will see you at the "picnic" but sad that I can't ride my Bike due to the ordinances that are in place within the city. There is still much to be done.
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Jun 7, 2009 9:20:45 GMT -6
Tricia, Welcome aboard and thanks for your good efforts in the cause. In as much as your goals overlaps with my own interests here, you'll certainly have support from myself and others like me. But you need to understand that NOT A DIME IN '09 was born from an entirely different perspective than the one espoused by both BOOST and HELP. For me, and many others here like me, it was not then and still is not now about bringing about a vibrant local economy in Myrtle Beach or bailing out local businesses who are suffering. Do we empathize with them (especially the smaller mom-and-pop locals)? Absolutely. Do we want to see a healthy Myrtle Beach that is a great area to visit and live? You bet. But that isn't what is primary to me, it is only a goal that does not conflict with my own. I took an immediate interest in this issue when I learned of it because what the Mayor and City Council did was blatently discriminatory and unconstitutional. It was a clear statement that "your kind isn't wanted here." It was especially galling coming from people who were attacking a 69 year tradition that predated virtually everyone alive in the city now. I am not a biker and I am not a resident. It was simply that this isn't the America I know and love. It isn't the one that our veterans have shed blood to protect and defend. It isn't the one I want to live in, and it isn't one I will tolerate. Since the overwhelming majority of those affected by the ordinances do not live in Horry County or Myrtle Beach, the ONLY means they had to express their displeasure and affect change was economic. The only vote they had then (and the only one they have now) is with their dollars. That part of the equation has not changed, and despite the movement now on the part of business owners via HELP and BOOST, nothing substantial in the situation in Myrtle Beach has yet changed. The ordinances are still on the books, the Mayor and the City Council are still in place, the lawsuits are still being adjudicated, and bikers are still being harrased, disparaged, and spit upon by the city. As long as that is the case, I see no reason why someone with an interest in simple fairness would want to return to the city, and the unspoken worry is that if we relieve the pressure too soon, we will sacrifice the modest progress that has been made towards getting rid of these odious policies. Others here have pointed out that Myrtle Beach businesses were conspicuously absent back last fall when all this spun up. Maybe they didn't try hard enough, maybe they were afraid of the Chamber, maybe they didn't think we could deliver a boycott with teeth in it. For whatever reason, it was the biker community that has been at the forefront, putting our time, resources, and money into it in the form of organizing, spreading the word, filing lawsuits, conducting protest rides, pounding the pavement, attending council meetings, and working d**ned hard to build the grass roots base that finally materialized. Frankly, from my chair it looks like it wasn't until those efforts started to gain traction that the local businesses who had an actual financial stake sat up and took notice. If it had not gained traction and the numbers for May were not off as significantly as they were, and if the Mayor had been able to deliver "heads in beds", I cannot help but believe that the same businesses joining BOOST and HELP now would have been happy to sit back and collect revenues from their new customers and leave the bikers out in the cold sucking wind. So, we aren't against you. I think you'll find us supportive as long as our goals overlap. But I think it is fair to say we (at least me personally) don't necessarily trust you either. We'll never know what would have happened if May numbers had come in bigger and the streets weren't empty. All I'm saying is that you guys are fighting the ordinances not because they are inherently unjust and undemocratic, but because they are costing people money. That's fair enough, we all have different perspectives and nothing says one is "better" than another. I'm just saying that trust is easier to lose than to regain and once someone is burned, they aren't gonna give it back too readily. Now, all that said, I DO admire your philosphy of locals helping locals through the hard times. It is that kind of community spirit that helped build this country and hopefully will help those struggling in the current economy to get through to the other side. If there had been more of that sense of community to begin with, then perhaps a small group of self-absorbed politicians would not have been able to hijack the local agenda to begin with. So, one hopes that good will come from all this and Myrtle Beach will become the welcoming destination for people of all walks of life and circumstance it has always been known to be. Win-Win if that happens. In the mean time, please don't take away from my words any hostility towards you or your efforts. Not my intent, just trying to help you understand my mindset on all this. Maybe that's just me. Again, welcome aboard and we look forward to hearing more from you and helping move the ball forward in common cause! If you would like to have your own dedicated message forum and chat room here at iBiker just drop me a note and we'll see what we can do to help. In the mean time, peace and have a great day. Regards, Pat The above expresses purely the personal opinion of the author and does not represent anyoen elses views. Your mileage may vary. This tag may only be removed by the consumer. Contents may have settled during shipment. Break only in case of emergency. Dispose of properly.
|
|
|
Post by geezer on Jun 7, 2009 9:33:12 GMT -6
Very well spoken, Pat. As I have said before, if the Not A Dime movement had not been in place, nothing would have changed. Since Not A Dime was/is used, it has brought people together. Come November, things can and will change.
|
|
|
Post by howardstern on Jun 7, 2009 17:49:54 GMT -6
Alrighty then Pat.... Take a freakin' breath.... A bow... And then duly pat yourself on the back.... You've spoken VOLUMES and have hit the issue square in the kisser. Hopefully, we've reached a plateau and can begin the long recovery process. As I've stated previously. The ball is in the court of the business owners.
|
|
|
Post by train on Jun 7, 2009 18:14:35 GMT -6
How many City businesses are involved in this fight with HELP If outside City limits really dont have any voice Mayor and Council made that clear , we need actual City residence and business owner ....
|
|
|
Post by DG1 Phillip on Jun 7, 2009 21:38:56 GMT -6
Have all the businesses post the help or boost signs in the doorways to show they are for the rallies or the COC decals to keep us away...... opinion only....
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Jun 8, 2009 4:47:34 GMT -6
Alrighty then Pat.... Take a freakin' breath.... I am not good at many things, but if it is run-on sentences you are looking for, I'm your man. It has previously been suggested that my technical reports should be classified as lethal weapons.
|
|
|
Post by outhouseking on Jun 8, 2009 5:53:16 GMT -6
Good post Pat! Tricia, Welcome aboard and thanks for your good efforts in the cause. In as much as your goals overlaps with my own interests here, you'll certainly have support from myself and others like me. But you need to understand that NOT A DIME IN '09 was born from an entirely different perspective than the one espoused by both BOOST and HELP. For me, and many others here like me, it was not then and still is not now about bringing about a vibrant local economy in Myrtle Beach or bailing out local businesses who are suffering. Do we empathize with them (especially the smaller mom-and-pop locals)? Absolutely. Do we want to see a healthy Myrtle Beach that is a great area to visit and live? You bet. But that isn't what is primary to me, it is only a goal that does not conflict with my own. I took an immediate interest in this issue when I learned of it because what the Mayor and City Council did was blatently discriminatory and unconstitutional. It was a clear statement that "your kind isn't wanted here." It was especially galling coming from people who were attacking a 69 year tradition that predated virtually everyone alive in the city now. I am not a biker and I am not a resident. It was simply that this isn't the America I know and love. It isn't the one that our veterans have shed blood to protect and defend. It isn't the one I want to live in, and it isn't one I will tolerate. Since the overwhelming majority of those affected by the ordinances do not live in Horry County or Myrtle Beach, the ONLY means they had to express their displeasure and affect change was economic. The only vote they had then (and the only one they have now) is with their dollars. That part of the equation has not changed, and despite the movement now on the part of business owners via HELP and BOOST, nothing substantial in the situation in Myrtle Beach has yet changed. The ordinances are still on the books, the Mayor and the City Council are still in place, the lawsuits are still being adjudicated, and bikers are still being harrased, disparaged, and spit upon by the city. As long as that is the case, I see no reason why someone with an interest in simple fairness would want to return to the city, and the unspoken worry is that if we relieve the pressure too soon, we will sacrifice the modest progress that has been made towards getting rid of these odious policies. Others here have pointed out that Myrtle Beach businesses were conspicuously absent back last fall when all this spun up. Maybe they didn't try hard enough, maybe they were afraid of the Chamber, maybe they didn't think we could deliver a boycott with teeth in it. For whatever reason, it was the biker community that has been at the forefront, putting our time, resources, and money into it in the form of organizing, spreading the word, filing lawsuits, conducting protest rides, pounding the pavement, attending council meetings, and working d**ned hard to build the grass roots base that finally materialized. Frankly, from my chair it looks like it wasn't until those efforts started to gain traction that the local businesses who had an actual financial stake sat up and took notice. If it had not gained traction and the numbers for May were not off as significantly as they were, and if the Mayor had been able to deliver "heads in beds", I cannot help but believe that the same businesses joining BOOST and HELP now would have been happy to sit back and collect revenues from their new customers and leave the bikers out in the cold sucking wind. So, we aren't against you. I think you'll find us supportive as long as our goals overlap. But I think it is fair to say we (at least me personally) don't necessarily trust you either. We'll never know what would have happened if May numbers had come in bigger and the streets weren't empty. All I'm saying is that you guys are fighting the ordinances not because they are inherently unjust and undemocratic, but because they are costing people money. That's fair enough, we all have different perspectives and nothing says one is "better" than another. I'm just saying that trust is easier to lose than to regain and once someone is burned, they aren't gonna give it back too readily. Now, all that said, I DO admire your philosphy of locals helping locals through the hard times. It is that kind of community spirit that helped build this country and hopefully will help those struggling in the current economy to get through to the other side. If there had been more of that sense of community to begin with, then perhaps a small group of self-absorbed politicians would not have been able to hijack the local agenda to begin with. So, one hopes that good will come from all this and Myrtle Beach will become the welcoming destination for people of all walks of life and circumstance it has always been known to be. Win-Win if that happens. In the mean time, please don't take away from my words any hostility towards you or your efforts. Not my intent, just trying to help you understand my mindset on all this. Maybe that's just me. Again, welcome aboard and we look forward to hearing more from you and helping move the ball forward in common cause! If you would like to have your own dedicated message forum and chat room here at iBiker just drop me a note and we'll see what we can do to help. In the mean time, peace and have a great day. Regards, Pat The above expresses purely the personal opinion of the author and does not represent anyoen elses views. Your mileage may vary. This tag may only be removed by the consumer. Contents may have settled during shipment. Break only in case of emergency. Dispose of properly.
|
|
|
Post by beachbikers1 on Jun 8, 2009 10:32:15 GMT -6
Pat, I think it was a great post but (and I think I can speak for Outhouse king too) the part were it says "It isn't the one that our veterans have shed blood to protect and defend." is highly incorrect! We did fight for the Freedom in this country which is why it's at the level it's at to today. But when you get a bunch of jokers that never served their time in combat and try to take away the Freedoms that we fought for in one of the only states left that respects our freedom that against everything we and our dead brothers stood for. You see Pat; you people are fighting for your rights, guys like me & Outie it's all about Freedom!
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Jun 8, 2009 14:13:57 GMT -6
Pat, I think it was a great post but (and I think I can speak for Outhouse king too) the part were it says "It isn't the one that our veterans have shed blood to protect and defend." is highly incorrect! We did fight for the Freedom in this country which is why it's at the level it's at to today. But when you get a bunch of jokers that never served their time in combat and try to take away the Freedoms that we fought for in one of the only states left that respects our freedom that against everything we and our dead brothers stood for. You see Pat; you people are fighting for your rights, guys like me & Outie it's all about Freedom! I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I think we're saying the same thing amigo.
|
|
|
Post by bigbuck on Jun 8, 2009 16:51:57 GMT -6
Pat, Wish I could have said it that well. You hit the nail on the head with that comment. I am willing to share my dimes once more, but i just don't feel that the love is there yet. Too many this day and time will blow smoke for $$$ and the smoke needs to clear first before the dimes start being distributed again
|
|
|
Post by geezer on Jun 8, 2009 17:18:32 GMT -6
Pat, Wish I could have said it that well. You hit the nail on the head with that comment. I am willing to share my dimes once more, but i just don't feel that the love is there yet. Too many this day and time will blow smoke for $$$ and the smoke needs to clear first before the dimes start being distributed again Wayne Gray called his "Bikers Welcome" signs just a good business decision.
|
|
|
Post by rangemaster on Jun 8, 2009 17:41:06 GMT -6
Wayne Gray called his "Bikers Welcome" signs just a good business decision. Well, it DOES prove that Wayne Gray has "a pair" - WITHOUT (allegedly) having to ask any females who are NOT his wife...
|
|
|
Post by rodehouse on Jun 8, 2009 20:17:58 GMT -6
Pat, Wish I could have said it that well. You hit the nail on the head with that comment. I am willing to share my dimes once more, but i just don't feel that the love is there yet. Too many this day and time will blow smoke for $$$ and the smoke needs to clear first before the dimes start being distributed again Wayne Gray called his "Bikers Welcome" signs just a good business decision. For him it was, as he rammed the corn cob up everyone's Ars. Now that is funny.
|
|