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Post by freebird on Mar 26, 2009 16:00:50 GMT -6
Before everyone starts celebrating, the SC Supreme Court said the administrative hearings are unconstitutional (most likely because of it's lack of due process) and these "infractions" need to be held in city court. I'll start celebrating when these ordinances are struck down by the SCSC. Just my two cents.... You are correct but with this opinion due process opens up. Since there is no testing facility in SC the City will have to now bring in outside expert witnisses and the such. Bikers now have avenues for appeals. There were 49 tickets the day of the ride and I believe they are around 140 at this time. If all exercise their rights a very conservative estimate would be $ 2000.00 cost per ticket to the City to prosecute. It would cost the City $280,000.00 to prosecute 140 minor infractions. The courts will have to decide wether to prosecute more serious crime or helmet infractions that fly in the face of SC law. As an added bonus the smoking laws appear to now be in question as well. It probably wont be over till both the US Supreme Court and the State Supreme Court rule but I think it is safe to say what the SC Supreme Court thinks. I believe the word used was Repugnant. Also Tom McGrath and SC Representative Viers will also represent all tickets Pro Bono. As a side note the Anti Smoking crowd probably would have been ok but when the Mayor started this BS there was a determined group of people that brought this issue mainstream and now the State Supreme Court can see where every petty Tyrant passes anything they want and had to get involved. I see the gains made by that group as now in question. Congratulations Mayor you just alienated more people. As you said it is not time to celebrate. But I think that day is coming.
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Post by bigbuck on Mar 26, 2009 18:48:58 GMT -6
bird, as always i think you are on target. my regret is that i feel rhoades is the type of person that will stand his ground and "feel his power" at the expense of the taxpayers and small businesses til the end just cause he is high on his position of power. hopefully someone will intervene before he destroys all hope for the working class people of MB who make it what it really is.
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Post by adventure on Mar 26, 2009 19:23:42 GMT -6
Great Work dilligag1. I am sitting on pins and needles awaiting a responce, You are Too Da Man.
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Post by ghostwars on Mar 27, 2009 11:30:41 GMT -6
You are correct but with this opinion due process opens up. Since there is no testing facility in SC the City will have to now bring in outside expert witnisses and the such. Bikers now have avenues for appeals. There were 49 tickets the day of the ride and I believe they are around 140 at this time. If all exercise their rights a very conservative estimate would be $ 2000.00 cost per ticket to the City to prosecute. It would cost the City $280,000.00 to prosecute 140 minor infractions. The courts will have to decide wether to prosecute more serious crime or helmet infractions that fly in the face of SC law. As an added bonus the smoking laws appear to now be in question as well. It probably wont be over till both the US Supreme Court and the State Supreme Court rule but I think it is safe to say what the SC Supreme Court thinks. I believe the word used was Repugnant. Also Tom McGrath and SC Representative Viers will also represent all tickets Pro Bono. As a side note the Anti Smoking crowd probably would have been ok but when the Mayor started this BS there was a determined group of people that brought this issue mainstream and now the State Supreme Court can see where every petty Tyrant passes anything they want and had to get involved. I see the gains made by that group as now in question. Congratulations Mayor you just alienated more people. As you said it is not time to celebrate. But I think that day is coming. Bird, I'm not sure how you are coming up with those numbers. Aren't the judges, prosecutors, and officers all salary employees? If only 140 infraction tickets have been written, that will equal to less than one per officer. I don't see that straining the system. Red light photo set the stage for "no due process" infractions years ago. I'll post some interesting, not biker related, info below. Automated Enforcement Case Law Synopsissafety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersections/rlc_guide/rlc_bib.htmOffice of the Attorney General of the State of South Carolina, (No Opinion No.) 2002 S.C. AG LEXIS 209 (2002). The Attorney General re-evaluated1 the use of automated traffic enforcement and concluded that “general case law and other authority reviewed herein support the conclusion that a properly drafted statute authorizing use of photo-radar or similar forms of automated traffic enforcement would pass constitutional muster. These authorities have reviewed automated traffic enforcement from a variety of constitutional perspective include the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses, the Fourth Amendment’s protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, the Sixth Amendment’s right to present an adequate defense, as well as the federal and state constitution’s right to privacy. The general consensus is that automated traffic enforcement is constitutional.” “Of course, the constitutionality of any statute authorizing automated traffic enforcement would depend, in part, upon a well drafted statute.” Office of the Attorney General of the State of South Carolina, 1996 S.C. AG LEXIS 54 (1996) regarding municipalities use of photo-radar in South Carolina. Though the opinion notes that no State statute prohibited photo-radar enforcement, the Attorney General nevertheless expressed concerns about the registered owner presumption, concluding that the Legislature was the appropriate authority to authorize use of the presumption.
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Post by seaside on Mar 27, 2009 14:06:08 GMT -6
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Post by freebird on Mar 27, 2009 21:30:19 GMT -6
Ghost All the court cases concerning the Helmet and Noise ordinances so far the City Attorney has either not been there or did not speak. Probably best when considering that it was the City Letter that gave the nexus for the lawsuits to go forward. If the City continues to use Howe then those cost could be rather high. Also depending if anyone challenges the fact that the Helmet that the City describes doesn't exist.. Therefore one cannot be held to a standard that one cannot reasonbly meet. Also depending on Municiple Court or a Magistrate they are appealable and I believe could have Jury trials definately for the noise ordinance and most likely for the Helmets. As far as 140 tickets clogging the system depending on how done and postponments ect it will give some burden. There is a point when the numbers clog the system. If not 140 then the City is limited by that number whatever we can agree on. As far as the salary employees more time is more money. One way or another. Either someone else ( non salary ) works more hours or service suffers. IE system gets clogged. I am not sure about the red light photo or how it works down here. My understanding is that like roadblocks some states allow them and some dont. Those that allow either are usually for a very specific purpose and are generally not modified. I cant see where this memo suggest that is where the State Supreme Court is heading with this but as you have said. I would also like to see the Supreme Court Rule on the Laws/infractions/misdemeanors/or whatever they are being described. Until then This is a graceful warning to the Mayor. I could be wrong but this is what I feel and why.
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Post by beachbikers1 on Mar 28, 2009 19:11:03 GMT -6
Important thing here is attention has been brought to the Mayor & City Council for making these ordinances by the top State Judical people. How the courts are to be handled might be only a start for them!
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Post by freebird on Mar 28, 2009 19:47:16 GMT -6
Important thing here is attention has been brought to the Mayor & City Council for making these ordinances by the top State Judical people. How the courts are to be handled might be only a start for them! On target. I think at this point they among others will follow this to the end. Viers will I am sure. Might be a good time to just sit back and watch
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Post by DG1 Phillip on Mar 30, 2009 18:38:22 GMT -6
Great Work dilligag1. I am sitting on pins and needles awaiting a responce, You are Too Da Man. Well I got the reply and am no better off than I was before but for those waiting here it is....Please dont throw stuff at me when I ride by Mr Bourgoin, Ms. Frierson asked that I respond to your e-mail. Justice Toal, as the constitutional administrative head of the state court system, issued her order in response to an irregularity in the state court system. However, it would be inappropriate for her to comment on individual laws. That issue would have to be addressed through the appellate process. Media reports indicate that those issues have been appealed through an actual case and controversy. Thank you for your interest. Bob McCurdy, SCCA
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Post by adventure on Mar 30, 2009 18:38:59 GMT -6
Important thing here is attention has been brought to the Mayor & City Council for making these ordinances by the top State Judical people. How the courts are to be handled might be only a start for them! On target. I think at this point they among others will follow this to the end. Viers will I am sure. Might be a good time to just sit back and watch I concurr, I may be time to just sit back and watch, However I like to stir the pot from time to time, Just to give a little nudge
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Post by adventure on Mar 30, 2009 18:41:58 GMT -6
Great Work dilligag1. I am sitting on pins and needles awaiting a responce, You are Too Da Man. Well I got the reply and am no better off than I was before but for those waiting here it is....Please dont throw stuff at me when I ride by Mr Bourgoin, Ms. Frierson asked that I respond to your e-mail. Justice Toal, as the constitutional administrative head of the state court system, issued her order in response to an irregularity in the state court system. However, it would be inappropriate for her to comment on individual laws. That issue would have to be addressed through the appellate process. Media reports indicate that those issues have been appealed through an actual case and controversy. Thank you for your interest. Bob McCurdy, SCCA Thank you Phillip, For posting this. I will not throw anything at you, However, I will buy you a beer in May
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Post by DG1 Phillip on Mar 30, 2009 18:56:13 GMT -6
Well I got the reply and am no better off than I was before but for those waiting here it is....Please dont throw stuff at me when I ride by Mr Bourgoin, Ms. Frierson asked that I respond to your e-mail. Justice Toal, as the constitutional administrative head of the state court system, issued her order in response to an irregularity in the state court system. However, it would be inappropriate for her to comment on individual laws. That issue would have to be addressed through the appellate process. Media reports indicate that those issues have been appealed through an actual case and controversy. Thank you for your interest. Bob McCurdy, SCCA Thank you Phillip, For posting this. I will not throw anything at you, However, I will buy you a beer in May ;D ;D ;D Can I throw the bottles at the mayor??? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by bigbuck on Mar 30, 2009 19:09:00 GMT -6
only if you can hit him.
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Post by beachbikers1 on Mar 30, 2009 19:55:13 GMT -6
only if you can hit him. I'll go up to him and kick him in the balz! Rhodes that is.
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Post by freebird on Mar 31, 2009 20:17:44 GMT -6
Hummm. What was that game called when I kneel down behind him and you give him a little push... ;D
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